Attention, Braves fans: Fredi Gonzalez is not getting fired

"Better drive straight next season, Fredi." (Hyosub Shin/AJC)

“Better drive straight next season, Fredi.” (Hyosub Shin/AJC)

"Better drive straight next season, Fredi." (Hyosub Shin/AJC)

“Relax, Fredi. You’ve got your extension. You’re golden.” (Hyosub Shin/AJC)

As noted, the Atlanta Braves stink on ice. They’ve lost six straight, 13 of 14 and 35 of 47. Statistically, they’ve been the worst team in baseball since the All-Star break. At the rate they’re falling, they’ll finish 67-95, which would be six games below the preseason over/under number of wins set by Vegas.

And now you’re asking: Given that this is the third time in five seasons the Braves have collapsed under Fredi Gonzalez, isn’t it high time the Braves fired Fredi Gonzalez?

And here’s where I say: Not happening.

The part about his team cratering three times in five seasons is true. His 2011 Braves went 9-18 in September and missed the playoffs in the 13th inning of the 162nd game. His 2014 team — only last year, we note — was a game and a half out of the second wild card spot on Aug. 31 but went 7-18 — even worse than in the Epic Collapse of 2011! — thereafter. If you’re looking for the greatest manager in months beginning with the letter “S”, Fredi G. is in the bottom 1 percentile.

But Gonzalez survived the Epic Collapse — to be fair, it did come in his first season as Braves manager — and survived last season’s fade, although Frank Wren, the general manager who hired him, did not. The new brain trust (Johns Hart and Coppolella) liked Fredi G. enough to keep him. As of the 2015 All-Star break, they liked him enough to grant him a contract extension through 2016.

Key point: The Two Johns didn’t just re-up Fredi G. through next season; they also gave extensions to every member of his coaching staff. Were upper management to change its corporate mind and fire him now, it would have to pay him and all of his coaches for not working next season. (Maybe Roger McDowell would keep his job, but his work with the Braves’ young pitching this season has inspired no great confidence.)

Another point: By offering such extensions to a manager and coaches of a team that was five games below .500 at the break, the Two Johns essentially said, “We’re about to gut this roster even more, and this is our way of saying nothing that happens will be held against you.”

Which is, you’d have to say, only fair. The Braves look lifeless — they managed three hits and zero runs against the lousy Marlins on Monday, when Chris Narveson, making his second start since 2012, was the opposing pitcher — but that’s what happens when you can’t hit.

(Remember how the Braves reinvented their offense, which ranked 29th in runs last season, to cut back on strikeouts? Well, they’ve whiffed fewer times than any National League club. They’ve also hit fewer home runs than any team in the majors. They’ve also gone from next-to-last in runs to absolute last.)

The offense is again awful, albeit in a different way. The pitching has been nearly as bad — the Braves are 26th in the majors in team ERA — and that’s scary, given that they’ve based everything on young pitching. And when you can’t hit and you can’t pitch, there’s not much a manager can do.

The Braves have been outscored by 140 runs. That’s the second-worst differential in the majors. (The Phillies are the worst; the Phillies have also closed within 2 1/2 games of the Braves.) Being 54-77 is bad, but if we go by the Pythagorean number — a reflection of run differential — the Braves should be 49-82. Yes, this team has outperformed!

The past 11 months have seen such upheaval that the Two Johns surely regard Fredi G. as a pillar of stability. And surely, having just added Michael Bourn and Nick Swisher, who are slated to make $29 million between them next season but mightn’t even make the team, upper management isn’t eager to buy out a manager and a coaching staff, too. Back in July, the Two Johns gave Fredi G. a pass on the rest of the season. It would be shocking if they revoked it.

Then again, they did trade Craig Kimbrel. And Alex Wood. And Jose Peraza …

Reader Comments 0

253 comments
BravesFan1966
BravesFan1966

I have said all along on this site that the Braves would fold and stink and lose 100 games.  I said it in April and May.  But I got smashed here.  That is okay.  I was right and the smashers were wrong and have hid their heads in the sand.  I knew this team would going to lose.  I did not suspect it would be this dramatic.  I figured they'd lose 6 out of 10 all season long.  But this mob even made my prediction look bad as they have folded.  But then again when you are fielding a AA level team with a bunch of broken down, over the hill, cannot hit a beach ball type players and pitchers that should still be in A or AA ball, what can you expect.  The Braves stink.  They will stink next year AND IN 2017 WHEN THEY CHARGE AN ARM, LEG, LEFT HAND, AND SOMETHING PRIVATE for a ticket to the stinking games.  But they won't get a cent out of me.  I won't go to the games, buy their junk or watch on TV.  I watch the Cardinals now.  I have MLB season pass on DirecTV and am actually enjoying watching REAL BASEBALL being played by the likes of the Royals, Cardinals, Cubbies, Pirates, Yankees, LA Dodgers, etc.  Not the stinking, lousy, 1970 level Braves.

Harts_Junk
Harts_Junk

-- BASEBALL TRIVIA --

On July 17, 2015 Unscathed from not the least repeating September Meltdowns but also just too frequently easily documentable inept major league managing 'Teflon' Fredi G.... became 'Freewheeling' Fredi G :):), as he inexplicably and indefensibly was extended through the 2016 season on the eve of a 4-2 win over them dreaded Gnats. 43-47 was the W/L record on that faithful day in Braves franchise history.

Since then, this by John Hart purposefully 98% dismantled of 'Lone Gunman' as in favorite patsy :):) Frank Wren's signature and/or association ---- Wren who nevertheless assembled teams who won more games than ANY other NL club in practically a 5 year span from 2010 to September 2014, and would unequivocally also have made it to the post-season (and then some!) a lot more times with a different manager in that same span i.e. as in a genuine smart as well as post-season adept and non-dinosaur-like (sorry old Mr. Cox!) MLB manager ---- has gone 11-33  = .250 winning % all the while playing some of the most diabolical beyond poor and uninspiring baseball in this franchise post WW2 history!!!


So today's little BASEBALL TRIVIA is simply this:


Name any precedence and thereby name any manager in post WW2 baseball who have accomplished such a 'glorious' long .250 W% run or worse ---- Yessss we all know Fredi G has been dealt a fairly 'Bad Hand' by the indisputable eager to lose top-draftpick-seeking Mr. Hart ---- SINCE having his contract extended (in our case for no apparent earned reason!) WITHOUT getting The Ax??? ..................... And moreover seemingly remained in no future danger of getting The Ax because of it (in our case according to several sources incl. Bradley here) or practically anything else he might have done or kept doing managerially that shall we say 'Leaves a lot to be Desired'???


DrTruth
DrTruth

@Harts_Junk He'll have to kill someone to get fired.  And then he'll prolly just get a 1 week suspension.

armchair
armchair

I got news for you, when you are the worst team in baseball, your talent stinks. And that is obvious. I think Freddie G. is a good manager, but the team has no hitters and no pitchers. You can talk about the bad Septembers the two previous years--but the fact is, the Braves had no business being in contention in the first place. Last year's team wasn't good at all. I give Freddie credit for getting as much out of it as he did. When the GM finds some talented players, the team will win. Wren made a lot of terrible moves and Braves are paying the price. 

LegalBeagle3
LegalBeagle3

@armchair fans and media members like you and the author of this article are the reason why Atl sports suck.  Losers are not held accountable.  If this was NY, fans would be burning his house down.  But here, we make excuses and criticize the people who complain about the obviously poor leadership.

Jpace
Jpace

Watching the Falcons and just checked the Braves score. 14 - 1 Nationals which will leave the Braves 26 games under .500...100 losses remains a possibility and moving toward probability. Arthur Blank was in the announcer booth and handled himself extremely well (as he always does) in being the face and leader of the franchise...as you would expect him to be. It made me wonder, if the Braves were to be asked to produce such a face/leader of their franchise, who would it be? I think someone from Liberty Media should be run out to speak for the franchise. I suspect someone would need to develop a speaking point document for them. 

docschloss
docschloss

It seems to me that the future is playing now and it looks grim. Fredi seems to be in a daze-a type of post-traumatic stress.He should without question be fired.Another question is will the Braves wind up in last place in the division.I believe they will.What then-trade Freeman and Simmons and keep Fredi.There is no telling what this crew will do.Jeffery Lauria was right,he fired him.

Ryan Crouch
Ryan Crouch

Frediot is gone before the Braves open up in their new digs. The guy cannot manage, and is exponentially worse in games played in October. I will NEVER get over Fredi not bringing in Kimbrel in the 8th inning a couple years back against the Dodgers in the NLDS.

aulner
aulner

if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck it must be!  1 collapse can be explained away, but 3 come on what is the common denominator?  FG

HUDDYS1FAN
HUDDYS1FAN

Twenty-nine games left to play. current 54-79 record. I'm guaranteeing a one hundred loss season, putting money on it.

FreeAgentFan
FreeAgentFan

@HUDDYS1FAN 


I don't think so -- maybe high 90's


As bad as they are -- are they really .250 bad which is what they have been since they were at 42-42


RIght now they are playing like an expansion team


Even expansion teams win one out of 3 most of the time

FreeAgentFan
FreeAgentFan

We  need new ownership before anything else


Fredi is not a great manager but you cannot hold this talent deficient roster against him


It does not help that Hart gutted this roster for (excelt Shelby MIller) a bunch of guys who amount to nothing but number 4 starters and bullpen guys and nothing in the line of hitting


The Olivera trade was the DUMBEST I MEAN DUMBEST move they made since the Len Barker trade of 30 plus yrs ago


Wood is going to be better than W. Perez, Wisler and Folty -- Wisler is a back of rotation guy, Folty maybe another Kyle Farnsworth type and W Perez just stinks


This franchise is a joke and 2016 will be far worse especially if they move Julio for prospects


Hart got little or nothing in return -- he is the worst thing that has happened to the Braves in a long time

kenstallings
kenstallings

When the season started, I figured the Braves would win between 70 and 80 games.  That was their pace until the last two weeks.  Now, the team has fallen apart so badly that they will lose around 90 games.  If this team now on the roster was on the roster since day one of the season, they would be the worst team in baseball and lose well over 100 games!


Teams just don't turn the corner from such misery.  It took from 1988 to 1991 for the Braves to go "from worst to first!"  The worst part is the young players are not impressing me all that much, especially the starting pitchers.  They are not throwing a quality number of innings and the bullpen has become truly inept.  When it reaches a point where a roster has more question marks than answers then you know it is a long process, and with the payroll limits in place, the arbitration rules will make it impossible for the draft to put a quality roster together.  The team will lose the excellent players it develops unless Liberty Media increases the team's payroll.

FreeAgentFan
FreeAgentFan

@kenstallings 


The Braves had better young players and pitchers in that 1988 to 90 stretch


Even in 1988 I could see some positives in Glavine and he was figuring it out as early as 89


Smoltz was unbelievably improved from 1988 to 89


You could see that Gant, Blauser, Justice has something there and Gant rebounded after a bad second yr in 89


And we had Ted who was not afraid to spend a buck to get the team better


I cannot see this getting any better till 2020.  The system is still a joke and these young relief pitchers are terrible


Markberry, Mc Kirahan, W Perez and Folty are not anything special -- Wisler may be a decent mid to back of the rotation starter


Braves are nothing for some time



HUDDYS1FAN
HUDDYS1FAN

@kenstallings My take is every since Fredi got his contract extension the overall attitude of this team has been......screw it, we quit. Taking our bats, balls and gloves and going home for the winter.


The complete one-eighty in play and overall effort cannot be denied. These guys responded to the news of Gonzalez new contract negatively.

RWill2073
RWill2073

@joedavis:  Those questions aren't nearly as tough as you think.


1) Other teams have more team speed than the Braves.  Up until this year, we were constructed as a station to station wait for the home run team.  This is the first year we've had any speed.


2) I haven't noticed this, but I doubt Fredi is telling the pitchers to take it easy on opposing pitchers.


3) The Braves have had their share of pitchers they "stumbled on", like Aaron Harang.  Again, you named only pitchers from this year, when it's obvious the roster is in flux.  Three out of the four you named are old washed up types that are space fillers in a down year.  The other is a rookie.


4) Simmons didn't have a good approach at the plate when he hit 17 HR.  He still is struggling, but honestly, if he can give you a .250/.320/.400 slash line, with his defense, he'd be extremely valuable.


5) What are you accusing Fredi of here?  Overworking players?  I haven't read one article about players being run ragged.  Underworking them?  Isn't that the Bobby Cox approach of making some of the work optional occasionally to keep people fresh?  If so, then it's on the players for not doing what they need to do to be ready.  Can't really fault the coaches for that.


6) This is an epidemic all around baseball.  Obviously the help is there if sought out, as Teheran proves.  This is a legitimate complaint, though.  I wish it was because they were buying into the sabremetrics that say bunting is never the correct play, but we all know that isn't the case.


7) Eury Perez is a AAAA player, plain and simple.  He's not a part of the future, other than as a backup, which is how they're using him.  A small sample of success does not change that.


8) We let McCann go and traded away Gattis because we had Bethancourt on the way up.  So far he's been given less than 200 AB's to "prove" himself.  That's not nearly enough time.  I have my doubts about him too, but since he's one of the only legitimate prospects of Wren's that wasn't shipped out, you have to see what you got with him.  He'll need more than just the rest of this season, too.  Look at Jackie Bradley, Jr with the Red Sox.


9) Another AAAA, career backup guy.  I do wish they'd give his at bats to others, too, but maybe they hope if he does some good at the big league level, he'll be attractive to another team.  Maybe they want to give him experience so he can be a future backup.  Also, not too many other options when they have gone to him.


10) Got some numbers to prove this?


The only real concern with Fredi is his handling of a pitching staff.  And since it's looking more and more like maybe Roger McDowell isn't all that great, maybe this can't be laid squarely at Fredi's feet.  It's been written that McDowell is great at game planning for hitters, but not so great with mechanics.  Well, if that's true, he needs to go.  His most important job is to make sure pitchers' mechanics are in order and that they're arm strength is right.  If he's not so good at this, then that would help explain how no one lasts more than a few years under him.  I'd change pitching coaches before managers.

Jerry916
Jerry916

@RWill2073 1) - What speed do the Braves have?  Maybin is it.  Peterson is fair, but who am I missing?

patriotdog
patriotdog

The first year collapse I don't hold against FG. More injuries than I care to name to multiple pitchers and fielders and for long stretches doomed the team. Since then, it's FG. And his mind numbing mismanagement of his pitching staff and resultant inability of a starter to go past seven innings and trips to surgery for overworked relievers is enough reason to replace him.

As for the lack of sluggers, KC is 14 of 15 AL teams in homers. St Louis is 11 of 15 NL teams in homers. They each have the best records in their respective league. And, the one potential big bat we have at first base is so painfully slow on the base paths you cannot build a KC or ST Louis type offense with him ( Freeman) on the roster.

Finally, the pieces are there to play station to station ball, except for SS, FB & LF. The others put it in play pretty well, Olivera is too new to include in this sentence. But the team seems to be just going through the motions for the last 25 games or so. THAT is why I would let FG go, if I were Hart.

Poledawg83
Poledawg83

I agree that you can't evaluate FG on this year.  The constant roster churn, no talent left.  In fact if you want to look at what he did when the team had mediocre talent it wasn't bad.  We were contending.  In fact if we hadn't thrown in the towel at the all star break and had Grilli not gotten hurt we might be leading the division right now.  


But I am not an FG fan.  The only reason I tolerate him is because I respect Cox and Cox likes him.  Might as well give him another year.  The manager won't make much of a difference next year.


Having said allvof that the Braves have lost me as a fan until they put a respectable product on the field.  This is embarrassing.  Since the all star break this is probably the worst team I have ever seen, not just the worst Braves team.  You literally couldn't give me tickets to watch them play.

joedavis
joedavis

I don't expect any real journalism from the AJC, but wouldn't it be nice if the beat writers answered these questions:


1) Why do opposing baserunners routinely, regularly go from 1st to 3rd on singles, and always score from 2nd on singles, often without a throw from the Braves outfield?  Meanwhile, Braves baserunners are able to only go one base at a time.


2) Why do Braves pitchers routinely give up hits to opposing pitchers?  Quite often, these become souvenir balls, because it's their first major league hit.

3) Every team in the majors seems to stumble on a pitcher or two who can throw a shutout, or come in and shut down a rally.  Somehow the Braves have none?  I mean seriously:  Detwiler? Edwin Jackson?  Trevor Cahill?  Marksberry, who can't retire a right-handed batter with a cannon?  And no one is held accountable for the worst pitching in MLB.


4)  How did Andrelton Simmons go from MVP potential to a 3 HR, 34 RBI guy?


5)  Why do Fredi Gonzalez-managed hitters like Peterson, Maybin, Freeman, and Simmons wear out after 120 games each year?  How are well-managed MLB teams able to maintain a consistent quality of play for 162 games, plus playoffs each year?


6)  Why aren't Braves pitchers taught how to help themselves?  With the exception of Teheran, no one, including Shelby Miller can execute fundamentals like bunting. (As for Teheran, he has a multitude of other problems on the mound, and is a poor excuse for an "ace."


7)  Why was Eury Perez, a .300 hitter with the only decent arm in the Braves outfield, placed in the doghouse, never to be seen again?


8)  How much longer will Bethancourt be allowed to prove he's not a big-league player, with no skills at the plate, or behind the plate?


9) When will the Braves finally give up on Terdo, who is obviously not a big league player?


10)  Is there any big league team that hits more bouncers back to the pitcher than the Atlanta Braves?

patriotdog
patriotdog

Well. I'd love to take issue...but you're spot on. Good post

Bob_the_Blogger
Bob_the_Blogger

@joedavis I'm really puzzled as to why Swisher and Bourn are playing, when they are has-beens with no shot at playing in 2017, while Perez seems like a good, cheap, controllable candidate for a fourth outfielder.

klsfriend
klsfriend

Bradley, you really are a clown sometimes. The Braves have not "collapsed" this year. They are exactly as was anticipated at the beginning of a rebuilding year. The anomaly is not what they are now but what they did at the beginning of the year. Don't lump this year in with the past "collapses".

Kenny Powers
Kenny Powers

The last month is a collapse in terms of effort

SupremeGrandPoobah
SupremeGrandPoobah

@klsfriend I don't think a total collapse and loss of desire to win at all was anticipated at the beginning of the season.  They were not pathetic then, and they were giving good effort.  Now, not so much.

58Supersports
58Supersports

@klsfriend  not what Hart promised... and 1st half they were 500 and Grille got hurt and Hart put up the white flag and Braves quit.

DawgNole
DawgNole

@klsfriend

"Rebuilding"???

After two decades w/o a championship--and three-plus decades before that?!

No thanks!

Hammerman
Hammerman

What has Fredi done?They have collapsed,under achieved,and never over achieved under his command.As someone stated below and as I have in the past,here is the only reason he should be terminated.If Wren forced him to play BJ and Uggla,the two worst statistical everyday players in the game,if he had any dignity,heart,or principal he would have resigned.If he played them on the back of the baseball card,keep running them out there theory,he is a bleepin retarded incompetent and should have been s canned.When the day finally comes and he is let go,God willing,let's see who sheds a tear for Fat Fredi.I can guarantee the only ones will be the crickets.

Andrew Marks
Andrew Marks

I'm a fan of the current roster, farm and Hart. Fredi should be let go as conveniently as possible

SupremeGrandPoobah
SupremeGrandPoobah

@Andrew Marks You're a fan of the current roster?   Really?  You enjoy terrible players and endless losing streaks?  Ok, you need a therapist ASAP.  Don't make any hasty decisions.

DogTheMan
DogTheMan

Its time to cut all losses and start over. I can't watch this hot pile of garbage. Its not even fun to make fun off anymore.. Just plain embarrassing...

DrTruth
DrTruth

Why is it so hard for real Braves fans to understand that Frank Wren is not the problem here.  With every new Braves blog, "this is all Wren's fault" posts still pop up.  FACT:  Wren put players on the field that won more total games than any other NL team over his final 5 years as GM (2010-14).  Mark has written this and I've posted this fact at least half a dozen times....But Wren gets no credit for the Braves being fully capable of winning it all at least 2 of those 5 seasons with a capable manager like Bochy instead of Booby or Fredi.


Yeah, Wren made some bad deals, but ALL GMs get fooled every once in awhile.  None of them are perfect.  Everyone who signed off on those bad deals are still walking zombies in the halls of Bravesland and Liberty Media.  In contrast, John Hart seems to TRY and make bad deals (what GM PAYS a division competitor to take their #2 & #3 bats away?!?)  The Braves were RELEVANT in the fall from 2010-14.  Obviously the bad contracts had NO EFFECT on the talent level put on the field over those 5 seasons or they wouldn't have ruled the NL.....And yes, when you have more wins over 5 seasons than any other team in your league, your RULE your league.


An objective person would rightly conclude that Braves fans got a helluva lot more for their tickets to the Ted over Wren's final 5 seasons than they get for that same ticket in Hart's first.  Not even close....


FREDI is the weak link on the field.  Fredi is the bonehead manager who loses control of his team every season at some point after the All-Star break.  He managed TWO epic Sept collapses in only 4 years!  He had Kimbrel (the absolute BEST closer in all of baseball that season) ready and left Carp in to face Uribe late in an elimination game.  The Braves will NEVER, EVER, EVER win anything worth anything in the postseason (whenever they do return there in the future) as long as FREDI is still the manager.  Bet the farm on it.....Did John Hart fire Fredi when he cleaned house.  Quite the opposite.  He extended him for 2016 with an option on 2017.  That my friends is incompetence squared.


Now if you want to discuss why the Braves on-field talent is where it is today, minor league level, well, that's what you get when a guy comes in wielding a chainsaw and tells you he "has" to ship essentially ALL the current players out and replace them with minor league prospects (for the most part).  If you've been paying attention, this is what John Hart has done since taking over for Wren:


1). He has taken a team that led the NL in total wins for the past 5 consecutive seasons and he has them literally at the bottom of the NL in less than a single season.  Simply a staggering "accomplishment".


2)  John Hart repeatedly LIES to the fan base.  Of course his most infamous lie was "Kimbrel won't be traded" and then the evening before opening day he traded Kimbrel (the fastest MLB pitcher EVER to record 400 strikeouts and 200 career saves.  It's an understatement to say "fully-stocked farm systems" don't produce dominant players like that every day.)  Once a liar, always a liar.


3)  Except for the extent the dynamic ticket pricing used by the Braves for single game tickets has adjusted ticket prices due solely to game DEMAND, there has been no other all-encompassing ticket price reduction for fans to watch this current team play at the Ted, despite all of these "monster contracts" now being a thing of the past and the on-field product nearly unwatchable.  That money sure isn't being spent on NEW talent.  Where did it all go?


4)  The Braves and their President of Baseball Operations John Hart have announced that season ticket prices in Cobb for the "prime" lower level seats from dugout to dugout behind home plate will cost you TRIPLE what they are now for similar seating at the Ted.  WHY?  The current team is abysmal.....The big horrible Frank Wren contracts are gone.....They have no idea what their payroll will look like 2 seasons from now.  Answer:   It's just a simple money grab, compliments of Liberty Media and John Hart, to put everyone else besides the Braves on the hook for the new stadium costs, including fans.

AtlantaSportsVictory
AtlantaSportsVictory

@DrTruth What about how badly our farm system declined under Wren? Let me guess, that wasn't his fault either. 

DawgNole
DawgNole

@DrTruth: "Wren put players on the field that won more total games than any other NL team over his final 5 years as GM (2010-14) . . . The Braves were RELEVANT in the fall from 2010-14 . . . Fredi is the bonehead manager who loses control of his team every season at some point after the All-Star break."

_____________________

You make a number of valid points, but the bottom line remains:

  • How many championships resulted from the Braves winning "more games than any other NL team" under Wren--and being "RELEVANT"--during those years (2010-14)?
  • How many WS appearances?
  • How many NL titles?
  • How many Division crowns?
  • How many playoff game victories?
Also, for what it's worth, it appears that Fredi actually "lost control of his team" this season before the All-Star break, when they were swept 4-0 by hapless Colorado.


DawgNole
DawgNole

@DrTruth: "Do you pay major league ticket prices to go to the Ted and watch farm system prospects play?"

______________________

This season? Anyone who buys a ticket does exactly that.

DrTruth
DrTruth

@DawgNole If Fredi Gonzalez had managed the '27 Yankees, they would no longer be considered the best team in history.  Championships are won with talent....Both on-field talent and managerial talent.  By winning more games than other NL teams from 2010-14, the Braves obviously had on-field talent.  Otherwise that feat would have been impossible.


Managerial talent (or lack of) isn't as apparent during a 162-game regular season.  Where it becomes critical is when other talented teams also in the playoff hunt must be faced and defeated.  This is where Bobby Cox and Fredi (his protege) frequently failed.


Consider Cox (and his on-field talent) won 14 consecutive Div titles, a feat that may never be repeated.  Also consider that in those 14 seasons the Braves only won 1 WS title, another feat that will never be repeated.  Through the years, I watched Booby Cox manage himself right out of wins while the other manager simply sat there and let him do it.


If you doubt Fredi is a mess, just watch one of his post-game pressers.  You'll wonder how he's lasted this long.  For example, consider this from Mark Bradley last Sept:


"Gonzalez said Monday that he’d spent most of the previous 18 hours making out lineups to face Stephen Strasburg and rejecting all until he decided to have rookie Phil Gosselin lead off and Andrelton Simmons, he of the sub-.300 on-base percentage, batting second. Turned out the Braves didn’t score off Strasburg, one pitcher they usually handle."


If it takes a major league manager EIGHTEEN HOURS to make out a lineup for ONE game, then how over-matched do you think he'll be when he meets one of the elite MLB managers in the playoffs?  Consider how long 18 hours actually is.....And he still failed.....And then he actually admitted he spent 18 hours to fail.


2010 was Booby's Brooks Conrad debacle.  2011 was Fredi's first epic collapse, the one that is remembered as one of the Top 5 Sept collapses in all of MLB history.  2012 was the initial Wiid Card game where the Cards played flawless ball and the Braves played the opposite.  2013 was the Kimbrel in the bullpen in the 8th failure.  2014 was another Sept collapse, actually worse than the 2011 collapse.


The only thing Fredi has proven in 5 years as Braves manager is:  He is NOT the guy to take the Braves to the next level.  Now he doesn't even have the on-field talent that can play .300 ball for the rest of the schedule.

Hammerman
Hammerman

Dr.Truth shall set you free.Greatest post of the season.

DrTruth
DrTruth

@AtlantaSportsVictory  Sorry, but Hart has DUPED you into believing in that which doesn't really matter to you as a Braves fan.  Why do you even care what the farm system is ranked by "experts"?  Do you pay major league ticket prices to go to the Ted and watch farm system prospects play?  


With Wren's "ranked near the bottom" farm system, you bought a ticket at the Ted and watched a major league team play that was relevant in the fall for the past 5 seasons.  With Hart's "ranked near the top" farm system, you buy a ticket at the Ted to watch a nearly unwatchable group of minor leaguers play and lose nearly every game they play.


In other words, the farm system is not your problem.  As a fan, you buy a ticket at the ballpark and watch whatever talent is on the field play a game.  John Hart has you chasing rabbits.....

FreeAgentFan
FreeAgentFan

@DawgNole 


Its not that Hart has accomplished that much with the farm -- there really is not much there


There is little or nothing with every day players and these pitchers he got are a dime a dozen and yrs away


I go to see the other team play -- I am not really stressing myself rooting for the Braves as long as Hart and Liberty Media is around

FreeAgentFan
FreeAgentFan

@DrTruth 


Correct you are -- I am enjoying the opposing team more at least the opposing team can play baseball which these clowns cannot

cspecial
cspecial

HE SHOULD BE BUT  THATS THE BRAVES.THEY HAVE COMMITED TO LOSING.IF I WAS THE FANS, I WOULDN"T COME TO ANOTHER BRAVES GAME UNTIL THEY MAKE A CHANGE.FREDI GONZALEZ HAS BEEN LOSING SINCE HE GOT HERE.HE HAS BEEN GIVEN EVERY CHANCE IN THE BOOK BUT FAILED.I WOULD BOYCOTT THE BRAVES UNTIL THEY GET RID OF HIM AND SHOW THEY WANT A CHAMPIONSHIP PROGRAM. ONLY BECAUSE HES BOBBY COX BUDDY IS HE STILL AROUND SO HE KEEPS HIS JOB AND EACH SEASON HE CONTINUES TO LOSE.HE WILL HAVE THE WORST RECORD IN BASEBALL  AND YOU STILL KEEP HIM? EVERYTHING IS HIS FAULT.HE HAS HAD TALENT TO WIN BUT HE DIDN"T WIN.

wardenerd
wardenerd

Have you forgotten his mentor is Bobby Cox amanager with the best team in baseball for 10 years comes away with one world series.  How many times did they fail to win the penant and don't get me started on the Wohlers slider in 1996.


sea8491
sea8491

Fans, sports writers and others, concentrate on firing the Braves  owner, Liberty Media.


Think big

58Supersports
58Supersports

No Mark but he damn well  should have been in last 4 years, how many times you got to screw up before you get fired with Braves?   The picture tells it all, he is here because Bob loves him. When Fish fired FG, Bobby got mad as He!! and made statements to press that made Marlins mad saying they should have not fired him. Cox said before Hart took job Fredi should keep his job. Do you think Hart would have gone against Cox and Cox was one of the old fart good ole boys gang who hired him. He!! no...yes we are stuck with FG that's the Braves way!  Every time I see that picture I want to throw up!!  I"ve been a Braves fans 59 years, x season ticket holder but I'll not attend another game till FG is gone and I've kept that promise for last two years. Now someone will say they want miss me. That's ok but it looks like they missing a lot of fans like me...